Fierce Love – Episode 10
Hello. This is nine, episode nine part two — but we’re calling it 10.
We both listened to the last episode and where we left it. If you haven’t listened to Episode 9, go listen to that first. Although we’ll do a bit of a review here.
I’m Michael O’Rourke.
And I’m Mandy Straight.
This is Fierce Love.
Thank you for being here.
We sometimes forget to say our names. If this is your first episode, we promise we usually remember.
I want to acknowledge something before we dive in.
I hope people listen to this and get something out of it. I’ve been listening back to our episodes and I’m getting a lot out of them myself. Mandy, I want to acknowledge you in this. We approach things differently. We have different frameworks, different language, different awareness. We both go deep, and we’ve both paid attention to this kind of inner work for a long time.
We don’t script these conversations. We pick a general topic, talk just enough to get ourselves confused, and then hit record. And when I listen back, the distinctions that emerge surprise me.
Underneath our different approaches, I feel something very shared. A shared value of intimacy and real connection. And I experience that with you. Even when we hit friction — the healthy kind — it creates space for growth. We don’t try to change each other. We explore what’s real.
That’s important.
Yeah, and it’s a good example of how people can disagree on the surface and still meet somewhere deeper. You can believe A and I can believe B, and underneath that maybe we both want safety. Maybe we both want a life that feeds us.
The question becomes: if we go deep enough, do we meet at a common place?
Maybe not everyone wants to go deep. Maybe that’s where some of the disconnect happens.
I do feel like if someone is here at Episode 10, they probably run deep.
That’s probably true.
And something just hit me as you were talking. I have a focal point on our commonality. On the depth underneath. Even during the years when we couldn’t talk about this topic because language was triggering, I still had a focal point that we shared something essential.
The structure changed. The contact changed. But that focal point didn’t.
And here’s what’s important: even though our relationship matters to both of us, we don’t sacrifice truth to preserve it. If something doesn’t sit right, we say it. We don’t roll over out of fear of losing connection.
Because if we did that, we would lose it anyway.
Right. Instead of putting a focal point on structure — what closeness should look like — we put the focal point on how we’re showing up. On being honest. On speaking what’s real.
Closeness means we say the real thing.
If we don’t say what’s here, intimacy disappears.
Exactly. So many times in the past I didn’t speak truth because I was afraid of losing someone. And the moment I didn’t speak truth, I had already lost what mattered.
But we’re talking about speaking our own experience. Not accusing. Not blaming. Saying, “When this happened, I felt this.”
That creates understanding.
And it allows space for the other person to respond from their truth. Without convincing. Without overriding. Just holding space.
That’s intimacy.
Let’s circle back to focal point.
In Episode 9, we talked about present-moment focal points — noticing breath, noticing sensations — and also future focal points.
For example, I have to wake up at 2 a.m. tomorrow for a facilitation. I can’t just live in the moment at 1 a.m. and ignore that. So I go to bed early.
But why?
Because I care about how I show up tomorrow. I care about the people I’ll be working with. So the present moment includes care for the future.
Exactly. I’m living now in care for that version of myself tomorrow.
That’s different than fear-based motivation. It’s different than, “If I don’t do this, I’ll fail.”
Right.
And that brings up toward versus away motivation.
For years, I tried to motivate myself to work out by saying, “I don’t want to gain weight. I don’t want to feel bad.” That didn’t work for me.
What works for me is toward motivation: “I want to feel energized. I want to be resourced. I want to show up well for my clients.”
Some people are effectively fear-driven. They achieve a lot that way. But even when they get there, the fear doesn’t disappear.
Because the focal point was on evidence.
Exactly. If I get the job, the house, the approval — then I’ll feel enough.
But if the focal point is on evidence, the feeling never stabilizes.
And sometimes away motivation can be powerful — not from fear, but from clarity.
“I’m not living like this anymore.”
That’s different than chasing.
It’s a boundary.
Right. It’s clarity.
We also brought up the parable of the two wolves — the light and the dark. They’re both inside us. The one that grows is the one you feed.
When I notice I’m spiraling into self-criticism, that’s my cue. That’s my “dark wolf” voice. That awareness becomes the pivot point.
The key is not just saying, “Not this.” Because that keeps the focus on it.
The key is asking, “What am I feeding instead?”
And that requires vision.
If I don’t know where I’m going, no wonder I feel stuck.
Right. If I’m sad, and I want to move toward confidence, I have to ask: what does confidence look like right now? Even in a small way?
It doesn’t mean denying sadness. It means accepting it, and then orienting toward something life-giving.
Acceptance is the beginning of change.
Not denial. Not forcing positivity. Acceptance.
You asked earlier what the process looks like for me.
When something triggers me — say I feel like a failure — I start with what’s real in the moment.
What am I feeling in my body? Tight chest. Knotted stomach.
What emotion is here? Fear. Shame.
What story did I tell myself?
Usually something like, “I’m not smart enough. I messed up.”
Then I ask, what does that mean about me?
And eventually I uncover something deeper. Some childhood belief. Some unconscious pattern.
Instead of trying to fix it, I observe it.
Observation creates freedom.
Because when I can see the story as a story, I’m no longer fully inside it.
And I love that you said earlier: it’s true that I held that belief.
That doesn’t mean it’s true about me.
That shift alone opens space.
So maybe focal point is simply this:
We’re always focused somewhere.
The question is: where?
Are we focused on evidence? On fear? On fixing? On someone else changing?
Or are we focused on being? On awareness? On connection?
And where could our focus be?
Exactly. There’s always possibility.
I’m really grateful for this conversation. It feels more complete than where we ended last time.
This was definitely a two-episode arc.
And if you’re still here at Episode 10, we want to hear from you.
We’re all about connection.
Thank you for listening.
We’ll see you next time.
