Fierce Love – Episode 8
Transcript
Michael:
Hello.
Mandy:
Hi. This is Fierce Love, and we’re on Episode Eight.
Today we’re exploring something I’ve been calling the “pendulum of learning.” We might rename it by the end.
The basic idea is this: we come into the world wired a certain way. Nature is big. Nurture influences, yes. But the older I get, the more I see how strong nature really is.
Between about ages three and seven, we’re learning how the world works. We categorize, label, and create stories to get our bearings. Those early stories become imprints.
Later in life, we start unwinding those stories.
What often happens is we begin on one side of the pendulum. Then we realize, “Oh, that’s not the only way.” So we swing hard to the opposite extreme.
And maybe that swing is necessary.
A pendulum doesn’t move halfway across when it starts on one side. It swings wide before it finds center.
The question becomes: is center the goal? And if so, what does that actually mean?
Nature, Coping, and Story
Michael:
Let me reflect what I heard and add something.
We all come in wired a certain way. Then we learn how to cope in the world. And often, somewhere along the way, we absorb a message that something about us isn’t okay.
So we develop coping mechanisms.
We might become “the good one.” Or “the sad one.” Or “the positive one.” Or “the rebel.”
Over time, those coping patterns feel like identity.
But how much of that is authentically us… and how much is adaptation?
Mandy:
Yes.
And I’d clarify something. I don’t think we start on one side of the pendulum because someone told us we were wrong.
I think the coping mechanisms are the first swing.
We come in sensitive, overwhelmed, wired a certain way. We create stories to manage that. Those coping strategies get labeled by others. We start confusing the coping with who we are.
So when someone says, “You’re too much” or “You’re too sensitive,” they might be reacting to the coping layer, not the core self.
And we internalize that as something wrong with us.
Example: Depression and Joy
Mandy:
Here’s a personal example.
I dealt with depression from a young age. I became very familiar with sadness. It felt normal.
Now, after years of work, when I experience sustained happiness on an ordinary Tuesday afternoon… it feels uncomfortable.
My system isn’t used to it.
It’s like I swung from “sad is normal” toward something lighter, and I’m still calibrating.
Joy feels unfamiliar.
Example: Boundaries and Freedom
Mandy:
Another example.
My parents are introverts. They were protective of my energy. If I went to a sleepover, I had to be home early to “recharge.”
As an extrovert, that felt limiting.
So when I got older, I swung to the opposite side. I went out constantly. I had no boundaries.
It took years to find the middle — where I could enjoy being social and also choose downtime.
That middle wasn’t given to me. I had to learn it.
Familiar vs. Healthy
Michael:
That’s huge.
We don’t just swing because the other side is healthier. We swing because the new side is unfamiliar.
And unfamiliar feels unsafe.
I grew up trying to be positive, upbeat, easy. I learned not to show sadness.
If you had asked me whether I was happy, I wouldn’t have known. I only knew how to act like it.
So when I later swung toward “freedom,” it went extreme.
It wasn’t balance. It was reaction.
Blame and Responsibility
Mandy:
There’s something powerful in the moment when you realize the world isn’t doing it to you.
My niece recently complained that her mom was “making her” pay for gas.
I told her, “The world is making you pay for gas. Your mom is just introducing you to reality.”
At some point we stop fighting the parent… and start seeing the system.
That shift is part of the pendulum moving toward center.
Extremes and Unconsciousness
Michael:
The extremes often come from unconsciousness.
When I was grieving and hurt, I swung to “relationships are pointless” and numbed out.
That felt like freedom.
It wasn’t.
It was the same pattern inverted.
Both extremes were reactions.
Joy vs. Happiness
Mandy:
You made an important distinction earlier.
Happiness feels like a surface state sometimes.
Joy feels different.
Michael:
To me, joy isn’t a feeling.
Joy is appreciation of contrast in the present moment.
I can feel deep grief and still experience joy — because I’m appreciating the love that made the grief possible.
Joy isn’t “everything is good.”
Joy is presence with what is.
Drama vs. Depth
Mandy:
There’s also something about drama.
Drama feels like projecting outward, amplifying, creating a performance.
Depth is feeling intensely without making it a spectacle.
We can feel deeply without being dramatic.
Michael:
Yes.
And the difference often comes down to consciousness.
If I’m reacting, I’m in drama.
If I’m present, I’m in depth.
The Real Center
Michael:
What’s landing for me right now is this:
The pendulum isn’t really about happy vs. sad. Or social vs. alone. Or religious vs. rebellious.
It’s about unconscious reaction vs. conscious presence.
The extremes come from unconsciousness.
The center is presence.
And presence allows joy — not as a feeling, but as awareness.
Catching It in Real Time
Mandy:
The most powerful move might be noticing.
“I’m reacting.”
“I’m off-center.”
“I’m uncomfortable.”
The moment we say that, we’re already closer to center.
Michael:
Being present with our non-presence is presence.
That’s the shift.
Closing
Mandy:
So maybe the pendulum metaphor stays.
But the real measurement isn’t where we are emotionally.
It’s whether we’re present.
Michael:
Joy is appreciation of the moment.
Extremes are unconscious reactions.
Presence is center.
Mandy:
That feels like a good place to land.
Michael:
Episode Eight.
Mandy:
Thanks for being here.
